Vince Purcell: Take a walk on the wild side

Written by Dermot on Thursday, 13 August 2009

Amongst the many instruments that have passed through his hands over the years is – perhaps – the one that produced the most famous and sampled double bass line in the world, Herbie Flowers’ super slinky line from Lou Reed’s ‘Take a Walk on the Wild Side’.

We took some time out to chat to Vince about all things archtop related.

One of those things that has intrigued me for many years is why some people refer to the instrument you play as a violin, whereas some call it a fiddle. Why the difference?

It just depends who you’re talking to. I deal with classical people and I speak with folk people and that’s the only difference. Classical people refer to it more conservatively as a violin, whereas folk people refer to it more casually as a fiddle. There can be a difference, however, in how the bridge is set up.

What’s the main fiddle you play?

I play a French violin (a Buthod, from Paris, circa 1910) which I came across at auction. In the violin and fiddle market, there tends to be more vintage instruments then there are in other areas like guitars. New guitars are good for three or four hundred pounds, but you can’t get a nice violin unless it’s handmade. Mine was made at a factory but finished off by one of the top guys at the factory.

You now see factories that can produce a violin for about £100 including a bow and case but their top range is not good.

Most of the stuff I sell is like a Mittenwald I have at the moment, which costs up to £2,000. This should be in the region of most folk players and has a really great sound. The wood is 300 years old and the instrument is 200 years old.

So do you think there’s an opportunity for mid-range violins? Do you think it could be possible to produce something decent on a budget

It doesn’t seem so for some reason. It seems to work more for guitars than violins. I’ve seen people buy Chinese violins off eBay and they look good – some have great, sexy-looking flamed wood – but they just don’t work...sometimes, for example, the wood is green and not matured.

It’s probably also something to do with size. As violins as so tiny, as a maker you have to have a finesse that’s very hard to get. Usually good violins are made by people who set out to make good violins and put lots of time into the selection of wood and varnish...they don’t set out to make cheaper ones as well

So we’re talking one person in a workshop rather than a factory?

That’s where you usually get a very good instrument but there aren’t that many people doing it because it’s very difficult to make a living that way...I certainly found it hard to make a living doing like that. It’s a slog, and sometimes with people who play instruments they can’t actually tell the difference...it’s very weird.

What’s the nicest one you’ve had your hands on?

Probably a £15,000 Hill violin (made in England) that I repaired. I’ve also done bows up to £10k.

I must confess, whatever about violins, I’ve never understood how bows could cost that much...

You need a decent bow...and this usually costs from a thousand upwards. I’ve seen one go in London for £25,000.

But as it’s the hair that actually makes contact, why does the rest cost so much?

When you get to £10,000 and over you’re probably looking at a maker with an historic name...it’s like a Gibson by Lloyd Loar. On the playing side it is hard to get a good stick, and it’s endangered wood as well. It’s called pernambuco which is a region of Brazil. It’s all to do with being stiff and light. Think of how difficult it would be to physically make that so that it works everywhere along the stick.

I know you also work on other f hole instruments, like violas, violins, cellos and double basses, how similar are these?

Construction is the same. It’s in the arching, the wood and the whole construction. It’s a skill you learn, whereas fretting and guitar necks – for example – require different specialist training.

But you could work on the body of an f hole archtop guitar, for example?

Yes, I have done. I have actually made an arch top mandolin which is loosely based on a Gibson. It’s got a mahogany back and sides (made from an old bookshelf) but it’s got a really nice, expensive spruce front - you don’t compromise on the front.

So you have made a neck involved fretting, then?

Yes, but to turn out a guitar neck is different as it’s so much longer. You don’t know where the stress is going to move it...there are so many little factors involved.

Don’t some people buy pre-planed necks? Isn’t that cheating...doesn’t it defeat the point of the exercise?

Yes, I think it does. And usually they’ve gone so far that you can’t make it totally individual. You can’t make it creatively.

Can you tell us a little about Herbie Flowers’ bass that you repaired?

It was really badly damaged. A microphone had gone through the front of it. It’s a very old bass, and when they’re that old you’re a bit scared of taking it apart as bits can fall off. It was really dicey...I didn’t want to do it but he talked me into it. It worked out really well though, and he’s still playing it now.

What kind of bass is it?

I think it’s an old German bass...a real, full-sized, real wood bass. If it was in good condition it would be worth a lot of money.

Have any other famous instruments or players come through your doors?

I probably don’t know a lot of the people whose instruments have come through, but I have done a lot of work for people like De Dannan and Cockney Rebel’s fiddle player.

Do you consider yourself more of a player or a maker/restorer/repairer?

If I could make enough money from playing I’d do that. Being a maker actually used to be my hobby. But, it’s not as romantic as it seems....you have to put in a lot of hours to make a living because it’s really skilled and you’re always learning. It’s very hard and it doesn’t get easier. Varnishing, for example, is really important in violins. Violins are a small instrument with a big sense of expectation, and varnish plays a large part in that, much more than in guitars.

I’m presuming that the trick is to make the varnish as thin as possible?

Thin, yes...but the actual substance makes a big difference as well. If you sprayed on nitrous cellulose on a violin it would produce a harsh tone, but handmade guitars are sprayed with that.

I use a slow drying oil varnish. I’ve just re-varnished a violin – which you rarely do. You only do that if the varnish really vanishes. It sounds better without varnish up to a point, but it won’t last.

Considering all of the complicating factors at work, is it ever possible to ‘electrify’ a violin properly with a pickup or mic.?

It’s not my specialism but yes, it’s very difficult. Professional players I know have tried everything: pickup on the front; on the bridge; implanted in the bridge; in the sound post inside (which is very unusual)...everything. It’s a matter of opinion as to what’s good.

As far as having a good instrument goes, it’s better to have something that comes off easily so you can play it acoustically. I use a De Armond jazz pickup with a graphic equalizer and the sound is great. Unfortunately you can’t buy them anymore new, but you can pick them up on eBay.

What styles are you most known for playing?
 
Irish fiddle and jigs and reels on the tenor banjo. Also, old timey music.

Have you ever experimented with swing or jazz violin?

Only recently.

How related are jazz styles of playing?

There is a different crossover point with jazz. With Irish and old timey you’re playing in the first keys of A and D. With western swing and jazz you’re playing in ‘new’ keys like b flat which are keys that don’t fall under your fingers naturally....and you don’t have the open strings to resonate.

I have recently seen a number of jazz violin players who, sometimes, seemed to say as much if not more than the guitar players they were jamming with, but by playing less....

You can hold an audience with one note on a violin...there’s so much in it.

Find out more 

www.oldviolins.co.uk

Video

Vince plays 'Sals got mud between her toes'